Stem Cell Therapy Without Injections: A Doctor Reveals

What if everything you've been told about stem cell therapy, that it requires live cells, needles, and a clinic, turns out to be wrong? Dr. Tommy Rhee spent 20 years in regenerative medicine and three years developing a cell-free, needle-free alternative, and in this episode he breaks down the single mechanism that changes how recovery really works. If you're an athlete, a weekend warrior, or anyone living with joint pain, tendon injuries, or osteoarthritis who's wary of injections, this conversation is built for you.

Dr. Rhee served as team chiropractor for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and has worked with Olympians and UCLA athletes. He's seen firsthand why traditional stem cell injections and PRP treatment come with risks most clinics don't talk about. He walks through the regenerative medicine evolution from prolotherapy, to PRP, to stem cells, why injectables can create a "secondary injury," and the surprising reason frozen "live" cells still seem to work even after they've died.

He also gets honest about who stem cell therapy is NOT for, the 30-day morning-and-night protocol, and how long real tissue rebuilding takes.

This is a root-cause look at regenerative medicine, natural pain relief, and what recovery could look like without the needle, but you'll have to press play to hear the one thing he says to ask your own clinician before you ever consider an injection.

Chapters:

• 0:00 Why Aging Slows Recovery
• 0:51 Show Welcome And Big Idea - Stem Cell Therapy Without the Needle
• 1:13 Meet Dr. Tommy Rhee
• 3:10 From Pro Athletes To Regeneration
• 8:14 Homeostasis And The One To One Cellular Recovery Ratio
• 9:43 Nature Break And Water Safety - Wear your Personal Flotation Device (PFD)
• 11:23 Cell Free Exosomes Explained Simply
• 14:04 How To Get And Use RheeGen
• 15:25 Who Is A Good Fit For Stem Cell Therapy
• 16:20 Pain Masking Versus Real Healing The Root Cause
• 17:51 Realistic Timelines For Stem Cell Therapy Results
• 19:39 The Live Stem Cell Myth
• 22:39 Questions To Ask Your Clinician

🎙️ Guest: Dr. Tommy Rhee — sports chiropractor, U.S. Navy aviator, and author of The Future of Regenerative Medicine: Unlocking the Potential of Topical Stem Cell Therapy 

🌐 Learn more: rheegen.com

📖 Book: The Future of Regenerative Medicine — available on Amazon

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Transcript

Why Aging Slows Recovery

Speaker 2 0:00

Our body always cycles through. We always want to get rid of the waste and bring in the new tissue. And as we pass puberty, we do like a one-to-one ratio. We destroy and we rebuild one-to-one ratio. So we have stability. We always have a status quo or what they call us homeostasis. So at a certain time, our signals in our own body decrease because of aging or injury or some environmental thing. And those signals, when they decrease, you don't have that one-to-one ratio. Now you're breaking down and you're not rebuilding it on that one-to-one ratio. Now it's going like two destruction, one rebuilding. So that's why as we age, we need longer time to recover from an injury or from a workout because we don't have that quick signaling. So now, if you can introduce your body to a bigger signal that has that ability to give you that one-to-one ratio, well, that's better. So that's what regenerative medicine is all about is to sustain that one-to-one ratio.

Show Welcome And Big Idea

Speaker 1 0:51

Welcome to the New Normal Big Life Podcast. We bring you natural and integrative health information and stories about nature that we hope will inspire you to get outside an adventure, along with a step-by-step plan to help you practice what you've learned to create your own new normal and live the biggest life you can dream. I'm your host, Antoinette Berrafato, the Wellness Warrior. Let's get into today's topic.

Meet Dr. Tommy Rhee

Speaker 1 1:13

Welcome to New Normal Big Life, Dr. Ree. Why don't you tell us who you are, what you do, and the one big thing you want listeners to remember from the expertise you plan to share today?

Speaker 2 1:23

Dr. Tommy Ree. The big thing I do is in my past life. I was a military guy. I flew in the jets back in the Navy days when I was a young kid. And now I've developed myself into the sports chiropractor that works with elite athletes all the way from UCLA to Olympians to Tampe Buccaneers. And through that process, it was about recovery and the fastest way to get back into pre-injury or pre-workout. And that created the world of regenerative medicine. And you see that evolution from one trait of prototherapy into where it's at. Now stem cell therapy. And so then I've got more involved with it, learned more into that stem cell theory and seeing what this is all about. And I started becoming this kind of person that was inquisitive about why it has to be delivered in a mechanism of the injection. Because there's a there's there's risk factors in there. So through my discovery, I developed a topical cream that's non-invasive. And the big thing is that you know people think it's about stem cells. So the one thing that I want to really like relate to all your listeners is that it's not about the actual live cells, these stem cells, it's about the signals. Signals are what tells our existing tissue to do something. So you're not gonna have this cell that's from somewhere else that turn into your cell and says, okay, it's gonna be that cell. It's not gonna do that. It's gonna basically signal your existing tissue to do its job.

Speaker 1 2:44

Wow, I've never heard it said so simply. I wouldn't be a true army veteran if I didn't say go army beat navy.

Speaker 2 2:52

Here we go.

Speaker 1 2:54

But thank you so much for your service. That's wonderful to know.

Speaker 2 2:57

Thank you for your service too.

Speaker 1 2:59

Thank you. So, can you start by sharing your journey into regenerative medicine and what first led you to focus on a topical regenerative therapy?

Speaker 2 3:09

When you

From Pro Athletes To Regeneration

Speaker 2 3:10

work with professional athletes, it's all about recovery. Now, this started when, you know, these kids graduate from college at UCLA and they go into the Olympics or the pros, and then they're introduced to a faster recovery from injury or from a workout. And then you hear about things that they're injecting as far as their type of like therapy in a kind of unique way. There was there's one thing called a prolotherapy back in the 2000s that injected like a sugar water into your body, and then your body thinks that's some type of antigen. So it's creating scar tissue material and more, you know, like building blocks to heal the tissue up. So that was one theory back then. Then it evolved to a thing called PRP, where you take your own blood, you do the centrifuge, you take the growth factors out of the centrifuge, and then you inject your body with that growth factors, and then you heal faster. Then it went to stem cell therapy.

Speaker 1 4:02

And PRP, for those who are unfamiliar, is plasma-rich plates. Yeah, plasma-rich platelets. Plasma-rich platelets, yeah.

Speaker 2 4:10

Yes.

Speaker 1 4:11

Thanks for that. I think my uh brain injury is on display this morning, but we're gonna do the best we can.

Speaker 2 4:17

I've got I've got a lot of those injuries here. So So then you know what so then PRP was the current, and then you start seeing what the results are, and the theory is interesting. Then you hear about stem cell therapy, a particular stem cell is called the mesocoma stem cell. So they used to draw it out of your own bodies, like the bone marrow or the fat tissue, and then they take it to a centrifuge, you know, they wind it up and they pull out what they call the mesocoma stem cells and they inject the damaged area. Then you find out that the more vibrant tissue is the better tissue, and then the mesocoma stem cells are in abundance in the umbilical cord, and you obtain that during C-section delivery, the umbilical cord, and you there's a thing called a gelatinous material called Wharton's jelly around the umbilical cord, and that has the highest concentration of that stem cell, mesocoma stem cell. But the whole process is always injectable, it's always injectable. So these athletes, when they're working out and they're doing something to recover faster, when you do an injection, you're invading the area that you have the injury or you're trying to recover. Well, guess what? Now you have to recover from your primary injury and then your secondary injury. So during the season, they don't do the stem cell therapy. So what they do instead is a pain masking therapy, you know, like a numbing type of situation where they perform, but they can't feel the pain. And that's why you always hear about after the season people do surgeries or some type of reconstructed something. So once I started seeing that little void in that world, I started thinking, all right, there's gotta be a better delivery mechanism. So back then it was always about these live cells. We need these live cells. When you think about cells, cells have like the nucleus, it's supporting cells, and it's a little bigger in diameter. It was very difficult to think, like, all right, well, I can't get it through the skin because it was too large in diameter. But then you start thinking about, well, what's the mechanism of the stem cell or this regenerative medicine? So then you start going back to biology when you start thinking about, all right, chromosomes and then these things you go through mitosis, cell divide, make daughter cells, and make more cells. Then you start thinking, like, okay, how does that chromosome that's from a donor site, from a billicard, match to your own chromosome? It can't. There's no way possible, right? So you start thinking, right, well, if it does, it's gonna be a tumor formation. You don't want that. So you go to the next step, all right? It has to do something with signaling because our body is all about signaling through hormones, through anything you can think about. We send information through a channel called the endocrine system, you know, from the brain to the target organ. It's a hormone system. So then you start looking at that, all right, there's gotta be something else. And then you start looking into the world of the pericrine. The pericrine is a cell-to-cell communication. Then you start looking at, well, what's the message they're trying to receive here? Just like, you know, if you think about like diabetes and insulin and glucose, well, there's receptors. They're trying to match up. Well, that's the signal. You want to get that particular signal to that particular target tissue and match up. So in these mesochoma stem cells, they have those messages. They're in the form of proteins, cytokines, microRNAs, all these little things are giving information out. And then there's a receiver. There's a receiver that's kind of like saying, Hey, I need help. And then these little messages hone into that area and they say, All right, start your process, do the regeneration, and heal. So once you understand that principle, now you're looking at the diameter of that cell, that what they call cell-free, is now sh small. You know, it's real small in the sense that it can get to the skin with a little bit of helper, right? It's a little helper for transdermal component, and now you can deliver it without the needle. So that's how this whole thing evolved. Now I'm thinking now it's a little safer, it's better, and it's in the patient's hands. Now it's not in the clinician's hand with a high cost on it.

Speaker 1 7:55

As a person who is not only a traumatic brain injury survivor, but I broke my back and I have arthritis from my neck to my tailbone. This is very exciting to hear about. So, what kinds of conditions or recovery goals are topical regenerative therapies most often used for?

Speaker 2 8:13

Okay,

Homeostasis And The One To One Ratio

Speaker 2 8:14

so I'm a sports guy, so I I can only talk so much about like what I'm really responsible for, and that's like the muscoskeletal stuff. Muscles, tendons, ligaments, cartilage, bones, and nerves. So I look at those. Now, does it do other tissue, like you know, the organ tissue? It does anything that has to do with regeneration. Our body always cycles through. We always want to get rid of the waste and bring in the new tissue. It's just it's a cyclic kind of scenario. And as we pass puberty, we do like a one-to-one ratio. We destroy and we rebuild one-to-one ratio. So we have stability. We always have a status quo or what they call us homeostasis. So at a certain time, our signals in our own body decrease because of aging or injury or some environmental thing. And those signals, when they decrease, well, you don't have that one-to-one ratio. Now you're breaking down and you're not rebuilding it on that one-to-one ratio. Now it's going like two destruction, one rebuilding. So that's why as we age, we need longer time to recover from an injury or from a workout because we don't have that quick signaling. So now, if you can introduce your body to a bigger signal that has that ability to give you that one-to-one ratio, well, that's more the better. So that's what regenerative medicine is all about is to sustain that one-to-one ratio.

Speaker 1 9:33

Wow, I'm I'm so excited to continue talking about this. And when we come back after this small break, we're gonna learn more.

Nature Break And Water Safety

Speaker 1 9:43

Before we cover the next topic in this episode, I want to introduce you to the Adventure Sports Lifestyle with a micro story about an adventure that I've had. The adventure sports lifestyle and my deep connection to nature is essential to my good health. So here's the story. A little bit of a downer, but drowning claims over 400 lives yearly and U.S. boating accidents, with 87% of the people not wearing a personal flotation device despite having one in the boat. So a personal flotation device and a life jacket is often used interchangeably. So what's the difference between a life jacket versus a personal flotation device, commonly called a PFD? Well, not all PFDs are life jackets. The most critical difference is life jackets are designed to turn you face up in the water. So even if you're unconscious, it will turn you face up. Life jackets are also PFDs, but remember, not all PFDs are life jackets. Not all PFDs will turn you face up in the water. They'll just keep you floating until you can save yourself or get rescued. However, people commonly use the phrases life jacket, life vest, and PFD interchangeably, but know that there is a difference. So as a sponsored whitewater kayaker, a standout paddle board instructor, I know a lot about PFDs. So catch season one, episode 10, beyond the life jacket, where I teach you how to select the right PFD for your weight and activity, which is important. I hope this inspires you to safely get outside an adventure alone with friends and the people you love most. Now back to the topic.

Cell Free Exosomes Explained Simply

Speaker 1 11:23

So, Dr. Ree, you've described regen as a cell-free topical regenerative therapy. Can you explain what that means?

Speaker 2 11:30

So think about a cell, like back in biology days. You have the membrane, you have little helper cells, and then you have that thing called a nucleus where it contains like the chromosome and DNAs. Well, think about eliminating that component of it. So you take out that big chunk called a nucleus. Then you you know you take a little bit of the information out of there, or just helper cells out of there. Now you have this little encapsulated type of like fluid that just just it's just all it is is a carrier. They would call that like an exosome. Now you put information, just little information that you want to send down to a target tissue. Well, now the diameter has shrunk down more, it's smaller, and that nucleus is not there. When you don't have that chromosome or the DNA component, now the risk factor decreases a lot because you're not going to have that cell turn into something. It's not gonna do that, like that mitosis stuff. So cell-free means basically no DNA, no chromosome, and no ability to do any type of like mutation in some type of tissue, right? So that's when we look at cell-free. Now, when you go into that world of a smaller diameter and less risk factors, now you're just looking at the signals. Now you're looking for a better delivery system. And that delivery system is topical. And then once it gets through that dermis and then you're getting into the actual target tissue, now here comes information in a more safer manner.

Speaker 1 12:51

And so what do you think makes this approach especially appealing for people who want a non-evasive option? Is it the fact that there's lower risk because it's cell-free, or is it just because it doesn't involve a needle?

Speaker 2 13:04

I think both. I mean, here's the thing needles by itself is kind of I I know we we have some people that are afraid of needles, you know. But the other thing is that don't forget, when you break through the skin in an invasive way, you're you're going into a set of trauma because you're you're damaging tissue, because you have to get and deliver through that skin and to the target tissue and probably have to get through the tendon too. And then, God forbid if there's a little bacteria or virus on the needle, and then you don't get a good cleaned area, it gets through there. Well, now you invade yourself with that type of antigen or that that possible virus or the bacteria infection that you don't want to get involved with. So those are the factors that you have to be careful with when you start doing invasive things. And that's why people like the non-invasive approach. So simple, easy application, and it's a home process. It's not at a clinic and it's really inexpensive compared to those on-site, in-clinician provider type of therapies.

Speaker 1 14:01

And how does a person use regen?

How To Get And Use Regen

Speaker 1 14:04

First of all, let's talk about how they get it. Is it something that you have to get a prescription for, or how does that work?

Speaker 2 14:10

Yeah, right now, because it's human tissue based. So you have to get it from your provider. Now, the provider, all they need to do, if your provider, if your provider don't have the ability to have it on site, they can contact our office and we can set them up. And then they can basically, as far as patient, could talk to the provider and they can obtain it to that process because it has to go through like a professional use only type of uh level of uh distribution. When when you contact your provider, they'll contact us and you can get it that right. So the way you use regen, it's a 30-day application. So the 30-day application will yield as much as the injectables in this kit. There's two bottles in there. So there's a morning and after an alpha and omega. With those two, you want to apply the morning after your shower or before your workout, like an hour and a half before your workout. Just be aware that that has a thermogenic effect. You're gonna feel warm. Now, the reason why we have the omega, the one that you use before sleep, is because you have to neutralize that the thermogenic heat sensation. So that's why you have to apply that at nighttime. You don't want to feel hot while you're sleeping. And then those two are applied every day for the next 30 days straight. Don't break that pattern because you need a heavy saturation to get down and penetrate and then get to that target tissue. Just like in injectables.

Speaker 1 15:24

How

Who Is A Good Fit

Speaker 1 15:25

do people know if they might be a good fit for this?

Speaker 2 15:28

Usually you'll have that typical scenario where you have a repetitive injury. It doesn't feel like it's healing correctly. You know, like tendinopathy or something that's irritating, they call it a patella tendon, that kneecap pain that's just chronic. Or if you've been diagnosed with osteoarthritis when you have a destruction of your cartilage. Or if you're just feeling something that's in the morning, you feel when you first step out of bed, you feel like that ache, but then you give it some time, it feels better. Well, that's arthritis. And then that's that's the classic sign when you know that you're in that world of degenerating. You have to stop that process and start rebuilding it. Now, regen has the ability to rebuild cartilage, but if you're bone on bone and you're having bone destruction, it's not gonna help you. Nothing's gonna help you. So you want to catch yourself before you start getting that that that change of the osseous formation because you're bone on bone, you're destroying it

Pain Masking Versus Real Healing

Speaker 2 16:20

down.

Speaker 1 16:20

So if someone is thinking about regen, let me make sure that I understand. It sounds like this is not a masking process like when you take a pill or when you get a pain-blocking shot. This is actually helping your body to heal itself. Is that right?

Speaker 2 16:41

I mean, do you take anything out there when they say the word pain management, pain cream pain? Yeah, you're doing that. What you're doing is you're trying to mask the pain. I guess the analogy I continue to use is like you have a sprained ankle, and then you get uh you get punched in the eye, right? And then now everybody's saying, hey, my eye hurts, but my ankle feels great. Well, you've got a hierarchy of pain. So your body only identifies one thing. So then the highest, the highest wins. So just like anything else out there in the pain cream world, that's what you're doing. You're taking that injury side, and then you're you're rubbing something on there that kind of dissipates and feels a little different, because ooh, I feel different, so it must be getting better. Now you're not really going to the root of the cause. You're not really doing anything as far as like turning on the signals to turn on the tissue to do its regeneration. You're just allowing it to do it's just normal procedure except for your masking. So if you can get, again, a signal down there to tell your existing tissue to do its job, well, believe it or not, that's the better pattern you want to go to with managing pain. Not so much masking it, but just going on there and signaling your existing tissue to do its job.

Realistic Timelines For Results

Speaker 1 17:51

And what's a typical amount? I don't know if there is a typical, what maybe average length of time that someone would use regen? Is it something that you probably want to use for the rest of your life? Is it something that if you use it for a certain amount of time, let's say 90 days, you might feel better? What are the expectations? Okay.

Speaker 2 18:12

So here's the thing with like when you hear the word stem cell therapy, and then you go into the world of regenerative medicine, they say right away, oh, I feel great the next day. It's impossible. You can't regenerate tissue that fast. But what they do have is an anti-inflammatory component in there. So it does reduce inflammation. And then reduce inflammation reduces the pain. So you get that right away. Now, same thing with regen. You will feel pain reduced right away because the same signals that you think about for the anti-inflammatory is inside of regen. So your first initial thing is that I am now reducing my pain, so I might be getting better. Yeah, you're getting better, but you're not rebuilding tissue yet. It takes a process. So in the 30-day mark, you're going to start feeling better because now the tissue is starting to do its job through rebuilding and healing itself. Now, depending on the injury, the level of injury, you're looking at the time frame. So if it's like a grade one, which is a micro tear of a tendon or a ligament, you have a better chance of healing it within the first 60 days. Now, if you're looking at grade two, grade three, when you're close to getting total rupture when it's suddenly detached from each other, now you're looking at a longer duration. Just like anything else, you know, more severe the injury, the longer recovery. So you might be into the 90-day, 120-day you know, using a regen. So it all depends on the severity of your injury.

Speaker 1 19:35

Oh, this is so incredible. Technology is amazing.

The Live Stem Cell Myth

Speaker 1 19:39

So, what are some of the biggest misconceptions people have about stem cell therapy in general?

Speaker 2 19:45

Biggest misconception is the word live cell. Everybody thinks I need live cells. I got 10 million live cells. I've got these numbers and these live cells, and they're in me and they're doing their job. It's not what's important right now. That's going back to what we talked about, those live cells are not going to turn into your cells. The reason why people think that live cells are important and how it's proven it's not important is the simple principle of the procedure and the steps and how it actually gets into your body. So typically when you see you go to a clinic and you talk about stem cells, they say, you know, no tell the U. I can give you 10 million live cells, and these mesocoma stem cells will go ahead and heal you and turn into your tissue and all that, right? So these clinics get these stem cells, these mesocoma stem cells from another lab and they cryo deliver to your site or the clinic site. Now, when they come to your their office in a cryo preserve, it's like negative 66 degrees. Now, typically what they do is they'll take that little vial of like one cc's or one milliliter of that stem cell, and it's frozen, of course, and then they want to thaw it down. And then what they do is they put it in their palm of their ham and then just warm it with room temperature. Well, here's a problem. It's called shock thaw. When you shock thaw something, it dies right away. But here's the funny thing, it still works. Now there's a question you have to ask yourself, why does it still work when you have dead cells, not live cells, into your body? Because it doesn't need to be alive. It doesn't need to be alive, it's not about the cells, it's about what it secretes. It's secreting that's that message or signals. That's what's important. Once I understand that, I eliminate, if you look at like just a standard, if you all you guys out there, if you just go and Google how do you how do you thaw live tissue down to its living form, it'll tell you there's a step process every 10 degrees, every 15 minutes. It's a slow process. It'll take 90 minutes sometimes. What clinic has that kind of time to see that many patients in that period? No way. So what they do is they they shocked all it and it, you know, they they put it back into like a gelatinous liquid material and then they inject it. From that principle of learning that procedure and learning that, you know, that's not going to turn. Into a live cell anymore. You just shocked, you just basically kill those cells, but it still worked. Then you go into the world of discovering. And then you find out about these things called EVs, extracellular vesicles. Then you understand about these messages. And that's why everybody's moving away from these live cells into the words of like exosomes, peptides, these kind of signals that we have out there. Now we're actually controlling it and then we're injecting to the damaged tissue. But now you think about the delivery mechanism of the injectables being that harmful, topical is the way to go.

Speaker 1 22:31

Wow, this has been so enlightening. And you know what? I'm going to give it a try. So you'll be hearing from me soon. What more do you want listeners to

Questions To Ask Your Clinician

Speaker 1 22:39

know?

Speaker 2 22:39

I guess the biggest thing is just talk to your clinician if you're thinking about stem cell therapy. Talk to them about why live cells versus cell-free. What what is the difference? And then listen to him. If he's giving you a good description of what's going on, don't be upset if you challenge him. He doesn't like your challenges. You might have to go to another provider. A provider is also a person that helps, but educates you. If you can't express the mechanism of this whole regenerative medicine into a simple form, then you might have to go to somewhere else because more than likely he doesn't know what's going on. So if you can please just do your own justice by doing your own homework before you do this kind of invasive or expensive therapy, you know, I think it's more beneficial for you to be on the same side of science than guessing.

Speaker 1 23:26

That's great advice. And for listeners, some of the places you can go to get this information are PubMed and the NIH. You can probably find all the answers you need on those two locations.

Where To Learn More And Connect

Speaker 1 23:39

How can listeners find you and connect with your work, Dr. Ree?

Speaker 2 23:43

Well, you can go to my website and learn about that topical cream uh regen. So it's uh it's www.r-h-e-g-en- dot com. And you can learn everything about the stem cell world and these messages and the signals. And then, of course, I wrote a book. Now, I wrote a book about this whole process because it wasn't it wasn't like for like my my own satisfaction. It was for my laziness because I kept on explaining myself over and over again. Because, you know what, let me just write a book and then it's easily, and then when somebody wants to go into the science and goes, here, just take my book, read about it right there. So the book is on the book.

Speaker 1 24:21

Where can we find your book?

Speaker 2 24:22

It's on Amazon. It's the it's on Amazon, of course. And then uh it's the future of regenerative medicine, and just you know, my last name, R-H-E-E, and you'll see it there. And then it's the neat thing about that book, there's two versions in that book. There's the scientific side when you want to hear about all those signals and those different kinds of stem cells, and all the information you want as a biologist would like to have. But there's also another layman's version inside of there that summarizes what's going on in Jeff's journey. Jeff will take you from his knee pain, walk you through his present, and then where the future is going to move towards too for regenerating his knee issues. So there's it's a nice, easy hundred-page book.

Speaker 1 25:03

That's fantastic.

Closing Banter And Disclaimer

Speaker 1 25:04

And we'll have all of the links in the show description. Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Ree. I hope you'll come back soon and teach us more about regenerative therapy. Awesome. Thank you very much for the opportunity.

Speaker 2 25:16

And like anything else, what the Army guys say. What do you guys say to get like who yeah or something? Or watch out? That's it.

Speaker 25:24

That's it. I see you guys chasing trees out there all day long. You know, you do have a much better mode of transportation. I will say that. I put in many, many miles on my feet.

Speaker 2 25:38

No, there's there's one thing good about those army bases. They have but they have good golf courses. That's all I remember about the army bases. You guys know how to take care of it. You guys know how to take care of your landscaper.

Speaker 1 25:48

Yes, and when you get into trouble, you do it with very tiny tools.

Speaker 2 25:53

I think it's a course. That's everybody, that's every branch. You know, I remember toothbrushes in the old head, you know.

Speaker 25:58

Yeah, exactly. This has been so fun. Thank you so much for joining me.

Speaker 2 26:03

I really appreciate this conversation. Thank you very much again. You're welcome. The information in this podcast is not medical advice and should not be treated as such. Always consult your physician or healthcare professional before pursuing any health related procedure or activity.