Family Dysfunction: When Estrangement Is The Healthiest Choice

If you grew up in a home where the dysfunction was so normal nobody ever named it, and you are still carrying that weight while trying to hold everyone else together, mental health advocate Deborah Moffitt has a framework for what comes next.

In this episode, we discuss what family dysfunction looks like beneath the surface, why generational trauma keeps repeating until someone decides to stop it, and what it really means to forgive someone you may never speak to again. If you have been told that cutting off family makes you the problem, this conversation offers a different answer.

For the person who has been the steady one for everyone else while quietly falling apart inside their own family story.

CHAPTERS

3:20 Spotting Family Dysfunction

5:12 Roots Of Generational Patterns

7:30 Communication Wounds And Shutdown

9:28 Dysfunction Across Cultures

12:15 Why Therapy Helps When Family Won’t

26:30 Estrangement As Self-Protection

29:06 Starting Hard Talks Safely

32:26 Scripts, Mediators, And Therapy

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Transcript

Radical Honesty And Grace

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Look into the mirror and being honest with yourself and saying, you know, whatever it is you're struggling with, whatever you need to heal from. And even if you don't know, facing those things that you know that are of you, you want to get rid of, whether it's an addiction or anything of the sort. So just being honest with yourself and most importantly, having grace. Cause I think when we start going through the process of healing, we start beating ourselves up, like, oh, I made a mistake. I went back to this. Just have grace with yourself. We're humans, we're not perfect.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Hi, friends. Welcome to the New Normal Big Life Podcast. We're bringing you natural and integrative health information and stories about nature that we hope will inspire you to get outside an adventure, along with a step-by-step plan to help you practice what you've learned, create your own new normal, and live the biggest life you can dream. I'm your host, Antoinette Lee, the Wellness Warrior. Let's get into today's topic. Hi, Deborah. Welcome to New Normal Big Life.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Hi, thank you so much for having me. Antoinette, I'm so happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

I'm excited for our conversation. Why don't you tell our listeners who you are, what you do, and the one big idea you're going to leave us with from your expertise today.

Meet Deborah And Her Healing Mission

SPEAKER_00 1:15

My name's Deborah Moffitt. I am a mom of five, a mental health advocate, an author. And I am the creator and host of the Hill and Virgin Podcast. My podcast started as kind of like my personal journal. It was just me expressing my feelings. And then people started wanting to come on and also talk about their healing journey or things that they're struggling with. So I've opened the space up for guests and interviews. And it's it's a safe space, is what I call it. It's somewhere where you can come, let your guard down, be completely honest because that's what healing's about. Healing's about being completely honest with what you're going through in order to get to a space to even heal. And that's one thing that I would like to leave everybody with. Like the big thing is being able to look into the mirror and being honest with yourself and saying, you know, whatever it is you're struggling with, whatever you need to heal from. And even if you don't know, facing those things that you know that that are of you that you know that you want to get rid of, whether it's an addiction or anything of the sort. So just being honest with yourself and most importantly, having grace. Because I think when we start going through the process of healing, we start beating ourselves up, like, oh, I made a mistake. I went back to this. Just have grace with yourself. We're humans, we're not perfect.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Oh, I love that. That's beautiful. Have grace. And you know, we're coming out of the holidays, November, December, January here in the United States or big, a big holiday season. And we've probably have spent a lot of time with families, but there's a segment of us who are estranged from our families, and we'll talk about that in a moment. But what are some signs that a family is dysfunctional? Even if on the outside everybody is looking at your family thinking, oh, this is a pretty normal American family. What are the signs of dysfunction?

Spotting Family Dysfunction

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Signs of dysfunction, I call it trauma dumping. And then the black sheep, the people who feel like they don't belong in the family or they're not accepted for whatever choices they make. Um, I feel like in the black family, it has a lot of the LGBT, they don't always get pulled in and get loved on. So signs of dysfunctional families. I feel like a huge part of that is communication. Watch how they communicate. Do they love on each other? Support. Support's another big one. Do they support each other? Do we show up? Do we come? You know, do we show up when it matters? I feel like a lot of times people will show up for like celebrities or go to concerts and support people that they may never even breathe the same air as, but they won't support family. So that I feel like that's a big telltale sign. Like, are you supportive in that or do you are you receiving support um within that family? And then the the the healthy communication, because you can have communication in families, but it might not be healthy. Are y'all cursing each other out? Are you wishing bad on the person? Are you lifting them up? Are you are you a safe space? Can they come to you and talk? Um so those things.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

So, how does a dysfunctional family start? For example, two parents come together, they have the best intentions, you know, they get married, they start having children. Where does that dysfunction come from? Is it from the stress of being parents, the stress of life? What happens?

Roots Of Generational Patterns

SPEAKER_00 4:51

So I feel like it was there. So I don't feel like two healthy people come together and then they just start having problems when it comes to like dysfunction and like those generational things that are those traumas that are passed down. It comes for they had it already. And then having a child is probably just making them making it exasperate and they're able to look into it because now we got to sit down and we have to make decisions together. What's best for the family, what's best for the kids. And if you have two people with, say, two different walks of life and they don't, they weren't raised the same way, they may not agree on the same things when it comes to raising that child, which then can create some problems. And a lot of times those problems and dysfunctions, they they grow. I call them Legos under the rug. They kind of grow because the communication, I'm gonna always go back to communication because I just feel like a lot of the things that we go through and we deal with, um, especially within the family unit, can be resolved with some communicating. But I feel like a lot of times, like for me, we didn't have that healthy, you can come and talk to us. It was always a stay in a child's place, don't talk back. And that I feel like with our generation, with my generation anyway, it has caused a lot of anxiety and people who don't know how to communicate or who doesn't know how to effectively communicate or don't feel like they're hurt. Um, that was one of my issues being shutting down and not communicating. Cause I'm like, well, they probably don't care what I gotta say or listen. So I but to answer your question, I feel like those issues are they're already brewing before the relationship. They just get to come out in that space where, you know, it's feasible for it to come out.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

You mentioned about dysfunction in the Black family. Do you think there's a difference based on your professional expertise and experience? Is there a difference in the kinds of dysfunction based on ethnicity or culture or religion?

Communication Wounds And Shutdown

SPEAKER_00 6:59

I will say I did at one point when I first started my journey. I thought that there was a difference. But after the interviews I've done, I've interviewed a lot of people. And what I found is that family dysfunction is just what it is. It doesn't matter the race or who you are, it just may look different. Some people may have verbal abuse, some may have physical abuse. But I feel like with family dysfunction, it's the same. I um the reason I speak to a lot of black families when I talk and I say black families, because I feel like a lot of us, we don't like to deal with our stuff. Whereas I see like more so in like the Caucasians, like they're more prone to go to rehabs and go and go to therapy. And when you talk to black people about therapy, they always be like, Ain't nothing wrong with me. Ain't nothing wrong with me. And like you don't have to have something like just wrong with you to go to therapy. Like having someone to talk to that is unbiased, that does not know your whole life story just may be a good avenue. They may be able to point you in a direction to where you can start healing, but like it's it's such a hard conversation to have with us.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Well, as a person who's been through many years of therapy after serving in the military and managing post-traumatic stress, I can tell you that what I got out of therapy was the ability to process what happened to me and how I feel about it and what I'm gonna do with my life moving forward with a relative stranger, you know, someone I'm meeting for the first time on the first day of our sessions together, was so much easier than trying to talk to a parent or a sibling.

Dysfunction Across Cultures

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Cause they, because let's be honest, like most of the parents, like because like for me, like most of my traumas and things that I deal with are passed down or were direct ref reflection of my childhood and what I went through with the parent. And trying to talk to them about that stuff, they're so dismissive and oh yeah, yeah, you know, and it's it's like trying to that don't that it don't help me. Like that makes me even sadder. I can remember trying to talk to my mom about something, and I brought it up and she completely changed the subject on me and it hurt my feelings. So it's like I'm not trying to talk to a parent. And then I have a sister who went through a lot of the same things, probably even more than I went through. And trying to talk to her is like she's not ready to like even go through or have those conversations. So it's even hard trying to talk to her. So why not talk to somebody who is trained and that's a professional who has gone to school, who has equipped themselves to be able to help you through whatever you're going through.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

I love that. So, how do these dysfunctional patterns from childhood show up in our lives as adults and affect our relationships and self-esteem and even the way we parent children of our own?

SPEAKER_00 10:06

So I a lot of times, so one example that I can think of is the relationship that I had, or I would say didn't have with my dad, the type of men that I chose as an adult, the things that I put up with, the abandonment issues, those. So as an as a grown woman, I'm yearning for a father figure in a romantic relationship. Like what? And I didn't realize it at first, but now I'm just like, I look back and I'm like, I did not like that man. I liked who he was, how protective he was because I didn't get to experience that. That's something I missed as a girl. So, like as a mom now, like with I have one daughter, and I'm very big on like the open door policy. Like they say you have it at jobs, I have it in my house. You can talk to me about anything. I'm gonna tell you what it is. If you come to me with some boy problems, I'm gonna tell you what it about is and what it about ain't. And we, and I've always, since she's been old enough to have those conversations when it comes to relationships, I've had those conversations with her. And not in a negative way. I've had conversations in a way to where she understands like these are the signs, this is what you look for. This is if this is happening, then it's probably this, you know, give everybody a fair chance. Don't ever go into something treating a person how whatever happened in your last relationship, which is something I had to learn. So just being able to go through those experiences and then equip them my children to do even better than I did.

Why Therapy Helps When Family Won’t

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Well, for those listeners who didn't have a strong father figure in their lives and they find themselves dating the wrong kinds of men because they're looking for someone who's going to, you're unconsciously looking for someone who's going to make you feel safe and sort of almost like be that father figure in your life, even though you don't really want that on a conscious level. One of the ways that you can break that, and I'm not speaking from experience, I had a very good father in my life, but it's advice that I've given people before and they say it worked for them, is that if you find that you're dating the wrong men for you because you're unconsciously looking for a father figure, then what you might want to develop is relationships with older men that are platonic. For example, volunteering and assisted living centers where you're meeting older men, it's not a romantic involvement, but just developing friendships. And there's nothing wrong with what I call intentional family, people who show up in your life in a positive way, and then you just kind of adopt them as an uncle or father or grandfather.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

I like that. I like that a lot. And I actually had someone who stepped in when I was like in high school that was like a father figure. He passed away probably about 10 years ago. So I lost that relationship, but I never thought about adopting an uncle or a papa.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

And it, you know, it helps the person who's in the assisted living whose family might not live close by or don't have a lot of time. And then you also get the benefit of having a papa that maybe is not biologically related to you, but they can still feel that fill that role. And I'm sure there are a lot of people who would love the company. So when we talk about dysfunction or think about dysfunction, and we want to start talking about it with our families, I could relate to the idea of well, if I if I open that box, it's gonna break up my family. Talk us through that and how we can manage that whole situation.

Father Wounds And Dating Patterns

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Well, I will say this I'm probably a little different than your average person because I don't care. If you listen to my podcast and you listen to my dysfunctional family series, like I genuinely do not care. I'm gonna talk about it, I'm gonna speak about it, I'm gonna call it out. And if you don't like it, change it. Because nothing that I'm saying is wrong. I don't put names in my episodes, I don't really talk to a lot of specific situations unless they're directly affecting me. So, like I'm, I mean, for somebody who may be not as bold as I am, I would say maybe start with the family members that you have the closest relationships with and then start building with them and then try to venture off or try to do like family functions. You know, if you want to build those relationships, I'm an advocate for only reaching and dealing with the people who are good for your nervous system. Don't go reaching for trying to build relationships with people who you know are going to try to use and abuse you. Even family, I will cut them off. Don't talk to them. No, you don't have to don't ever feel obligated to have a relationship with somebody because of what the relationship is mother, father, sister, brother. I don't care. They ain't good for you. Snip, snip, cut them off.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Before we cover the next topic in this episode, I want to introduce you to the adventure sports lifestyle with what I like to call a micro story about an adventure that I've had. The adventure sports lifestyle and my deep connection to nature is essential to my good health. So here's the story. I wanted to help my neighbors in an apartment complex to love nature as much as I did because I started to notice that we lived in this great community, but they would leave things floating in the pool. They just didn't respect or take care of this beautiful natural environment that we had. So I put up a flyer and announced that if you want to learn how to grow a container garden and have fresh herbs on your balcony, join me. And the event was a huge hit. So many people showed up with their containers, their soil, and the herb seeds that they were going to plant. And all over the community, you started to see people have a deeper connection to nature through their own little container garden on their balcony. And then something else magical happened. They started to pick up their trash in the natural spaces around the community. I hope this inspires you to get outside an adventure alone with friends or the people you love most, and maybe even start a stewardship or cleanup event in your own community. Talk about family estrangement or intentional estrangement because it's it's actually a popular topic of conversation right now because 27% of Americans are estranged from at least one family member. And that's making a conscious decision not to have contact at all with one or more family members. What are you hearing through your work? And what are your thoughts about intentionally staying away from people?

Building Intentional Family

SPEAKER_00 17:39

I feel like if it's not a healthy relationship, you should stay away from it no matter what. And most of the time, that is the situation the family member maybe was abusive, they're verbally abusive, they're just not supportive, they don't deserve to breathe the same air as you. So I'm supportive of that. Like I, as long as you're doing it in a healthy way and it's for good reason, I support it 100%. Now, I don't support you keeping kids away from other parents just because you and your feelings because y'all didn't work out. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about those relationships where that person comes around and your belly starts hurting, you get a headache. It's just your your body knows that the person's not good for you. Advocate for not being in those relationships. Like if it's it's strange, it's strange. Like we got to do what's best for us. And especially when we have kids involved. Like I'm a mom of five. I'm not holding on to a relationship that's not good for my nervous system. That every time the person calls, it's like it's it's bothering me. I get a headache, you know, and I don't want those types of people around my kids. I'm not going to be around people who always want to argue, real big on not arguing in front of my children. Like I don't support that at all. We do in healthy relationships, healthy communication, and we're maintaining it.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

So for people who are listening and they want to have an honest conversation about the dysfunction in their family, what's a way that they can do it where it doesn't trigger the family member to get defensive and start fighting about it, or get defensive and shut down or walk away? How can they start that conversation? And just sharing from my own experience, my mother was a really difficult person to love. She was kind of one of those cups with a crack in the bottom, and all the love you poured into it just ran out of it very slowly. And, you know, she created a lot of tension in our household. But my three of my four siblings are on the spectrum. And so there was a lot of dysfunction because there was this uh need for from my parents to have them act a certain way that they probably were not capable of doing because of their challenges. So we had a lot of dysfunction in the family, but we could never ever ever talk about it, even when we were adults. I never did figure out how to talk with my parents about our family dysfunction before they passed away. What can listeners do to open up that conversation with their parents?

Naming Dysfunction Without Losing Yourself

SPEAKER_00 20:29

So if you have a parent that's hard to talk to or they're like defensive, the first thing I would think about is like maybe going to family therapy. I think overall, having someone, if it's maybe another family member that has a mutual relationship with both parties, with you and the parent who can be present to kind of mediate the situation, I think that would be a more that would be better and it will be more of a, I think it'll be a healthier outcome because when you have those, I think even as a grown-up and you have a parent who's like made you feel away as a child and you still don't have a healthy relationship, you still turn into that little child, like as an adult around them. Like however they made you feel as a child, whether they talk down or you know, they made you feel like nothing. So I think having that other person there to kind of like keep things like, okay, well, you be quiet and you listen to what they gotta say. And now, you know, just to make it a respectful environment. Because I think no matter what, those toxic parents, they don't care how old you are, they're gonna disrespect you, they're gonna talk over you because I'm your parent and what I say go, and you're gonna listen to me, and I don't have to listen to you because you're my child and I bought you in this world, and it's just it's a toxic mindset. So definitely just having somebody there to kind of help with the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Or there's some scripts or phrases or even mindset. That people can use when they're talking with their siblings, parents, extended family. For example, if I wanted to ask my aunt, for example, if she would accompany me to talk with my parents about the dysfunction in our relationship. If I said it that way, my aunt lids probably would have been like, You want me to what? Right? So, how can we get another family member to come help advocate and mediate for us?

SPEAKER_00 22:32

I would say be as honest as you can with that person. Maybe just saying, Hey, can you come along with me while I have a conversation? I feel like it would have to be somebody that you can go to and be like, look, you know the type of relationship I have with mom. Can you just be there with me while I have this conversation? Maybe not going to the person who you're not even comfortable to say that you have, you know, find a trusted person that you can actually have that conversation with. Or given if that parent wants a relationship with you and you know there's some conversations that need to be had, if you don't have a person in the family that can come and be the mediator, tell them, hey, open to having a relationship with you if you go to family therapy with me. Like we have to go to therapy in order for us to get back on the right track, you know. So maybe you don't have that family member. Bring in a professional.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

That sounds like a really healthy boundary. So let's talk about boundaries for a second. Let's say you've been to therapy, you've established re-established your relationship. How do you set some healthy boundaries with your family after that?

Micro Story: Nature, Stewardship, Healing

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Telling them no. I think I think once you once you set those boundaries, or or we'll say pre-boundaries. I feel like when you don't have any boundaries, you just you're a yes man. You just whatever. You you spread thin, you don't care, you're doing everything for everybody, you don't know how to say no. You're just, yeah, sure, yep, I'll do it. Yep. Telling the people no. So be real with yourself, be realistic. If it's something that you one don't want to do, you don't feel comfortable doing, or you just don't have the time. It's okay to tell people no. Again, don't let people make you feel like you're obligated to do something because of who they are. Like, family is very, very good at making you feel like, oh, you're gonna do this because you my cousin, or you're gonna do this because you're my sister, like you owe me this. Like, parents will make you feel like you owe them. Like, what I owe you at? I don't owe you anything. So master telling people no.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

So, what questions can someone ask themselves before becoming estranged from a loved one to just kind of make sure that your decision to have no contact with a family member is genuine and not like something that you're doing because you saw someone on social media post about not having contact with a parent, or because some talking head on the television told you that maybe you shouldn't have contact with a parent if they don't believe what you believe or support what you support or vote the way you voted or whatever. What kinds of questions can we ask ourselves to make sure we're doing that self-check before we decide to cut a family member off?

Estrangement As Self‑Protection

SPEAKER_00 25:31

So I'm real big on writing a journal. I have manifestation journals, I probably have like five different journals. In this situation, what I would do is write down like a pros and cons list and kind of go through and seeing like what are the pros to having this person in my life versus what the cons are. If it's something that you can fix, it may just be a simple conversation you could have to say, hey, I don't like when you do X, Y, and Z. And sometimes you just gotta tell people that. Now, if you continue to have to keep going back and telling a person, hey, you did this and I asked you not to, that's one of those relationships you gotta kind of step back and reevaluate and just see, like, is it is this really worth like putting the stress and the strain and the is it really worth it? And only you can answer that. Why 25 years ago? You remember when I gave you two dollars in the back of the no, like no, no, and no is a complete sentence.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Absolutely, and maintaining those boundaries are so so important. So we've taken the listeners through giving them the confidence to make the decision to have those tough conversations. You've had the tough conversations, you've either gone through therapy or you've just decided to have no contact. How does someone start to heal from their dysfunctional childhood?

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Being honest with ourselves. So for me, I had to sit down and figure out like what is my role in this dysfunction? Because let's be honest, we can all blame the other person. Like, I can give you a laundry list of how you got me messed up. Like, I can tell you all about you and what you did wrong, how you got me messed up, what you said, and I didn't like it. But true healing is when you're honest with yourself and you can say where you went wrong. How you may have made this person feel. Like, what what is it about you that attracted this type of person? Or why do you keep going back and dealing with this? Or you know, so you got you have to look in the mirror and really evaluate what it excuse me, what it is about you that that needs to heal, what you need to get away from. And it's it's only it's about you is not about nobody else, it's only about you.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

So recently in what I like to call uh virtual coffee in the cabin, because I actually live in a cabin in the woods, and one of the questions that came up recently was how do you forgive a parent that was had a parenting style that felt very brutal and violent to you as a child, but you still have a lot of emotional feelings and uh baggage around that experience well into adulthood. What does forgiveness look like when someone has hurt you so severely?

Starting Hard Talks Safely

SPEAKER_00 28:38

So when it comes to forgiveness, it's it's about like truly being okay with what happened, like within yourself. Like I'm making up my mind to be like, okay, you did this, I'm okay, like I forgive you. Like true forgiveness, true forgiveness starts with you first. So you gotta forgive yourself first. Because a lot of times, like it it circles back, and and we be upset with ourselves. That's why I said have grace. Like, you gotta have grace with you. And then once you forgive yourself for allowing whatever to happen, because somehow we we decide to blame ourselves, then just deciding that you know, whatever happened, it happened for a reason. What did you learn from it? What are you taking away? And just remember you don't have to like go back and be have this grand relationship with the parent after that. Just forgive them. And forgiveness is for you, it's so that you can move on. This person's not living rent-free in your head. You can free up some space in your heart. It's like holding on to unforgiveness is not good for your nervous system. It's actually not a healthy thing. So when it comes to forgiveness, just remember it's for you, it's not for the person. They may never apologize for what they did. And I think that's where a lot of us get stuck. Well, they never said they're sorry, they never acknowledged what they did for me. So now I'm gonna hold on to it forever. Nope. Forget about it. It happened. What did you learn from it? What are you taking away? And how are you going to not repeat the cycle in your life moving forward with your own children?

SPEAKER_01 30:15

So, listeners, if you're struggling with forgiving the unforgettable, forgivable, make sure you catch episode number 32, the healing power of forgiveness. You can find a link to it in the show description where forgiveness expert Katherine Giovanni walks you through step-by-step how to forgive the small hurts, the big hurts, the ones that seem like they are crushing your soul. She walks you through how to do it, and you can download a step-by-step plan. You can get that step-by-step plan when you sign up for our newsletter at nnbl.blog, and you'll have access to all of our downloadable tips from all of our takeaways, like Deborah, here today. So, Deborah, how important is professional support like therapy and coaching, or even support groups and healing from a dysfunctional family and even a dysfunctional adult relationship like a marriage that went terribly wrong?

SPEAKER_00 31:15

I feel like it's very important. Going through therapy took me through a journey of seeing things in a way that I've never viewed them. Doing certain projects and little assignments that I would have never done on my own. My whole journaling journey has been from therapy. Writing down my feelings and being able to like go back like a year ago and read. And I was like, girl, you was feeling like that. You let somebody let you feel like that. And so it it helps me with seeing my growth process. And I would have never thought to journal or write any of my feelings or emotions down had it not been for therapy. And I feel like just having that unbiased opinion, even with like, I've never been married, but I'm pretty sure being in like couples therapy and being able to have like that mediator that I talked about earlier. Like, okay, how did this make you feel when this happened? And just being able to have somebody there who can professionally make sense of things.

Scripts, Mediators, And Therapy

SPEAKER_01 32:21

I a hundred percent agree with that. I've spent many years in therapy, and I can tell you that it was one of the reasons I couldn't before going to therapy, it was one of the reasons I would only sleep four hours at night. I was in my head processing life and the things that happened to me as a child and as an adult while I was supposed to be sleeping. And then after therapy, now I sleep like a rock.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

So it can be really beneficial. Yes, and see, I and I think a lot of people have it mistaken. They think that you sign up for therapy and boom, you got a therapist, and it's just it. If you get a therapist and you don't like them, dump them and go get you a new therapist. Like you should have a relationship with your therapist where you just like you just having a conversation. Like it's just it shouldn't be this tense talking to this professional and they're gonna judge me. No, you should really be able to put your guard down and just open up and just be free. And if you can't do that, you probably just have the wrong therapist.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Oh, thank you so much for that advice, Deborah. This has been so insightful. What more do you want to leave our listeners with today?

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Um I just want to leave you all with this the healing journey and going through healing, it's uh it's an ugly battle. I like to think of it as a scar that gets a scab over it, and then you pick at it, and then it gets all ugly and bleeding again, and then it gets a scab again, and then you just it's something that you just have to take time with, you have to have grace with yourself, and you have to be honest. Honesty is key in the healing journey. It's it's key. Like you have to be, you have to pick out what you've done, where you went wrong, and how you can fix you. Don't try to fix somebody else because one thing you're gonna find out is you will wear yourself out trying to fix other people and make them see from how you see it and all of that. So, so just work on you, have a grace with yourself, love on yourself, do things for you. I like to take myself out on dates, I do self-care dates, whatever that looks like, a massage, go eat my favorite food, whatever it looks like, pull back from work, from family, and just do some things for yourself. It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Where can listeners connect with you and your work, Deborah?

Boundaries Begin With No

SPEAKER_00 34:50

Yes, so I have a website. It is thehelenversion.com. Um, you can get to all of the links to listen to the podcast, the podcast on Apple Music, Amazon, Spotify. Um, but if you go to the website, thehellenversion.com, it'll connect you to everything. We are on the radio every Saturday and Sunday in Atlanta, Georgia on WDFJY Radio 99.1 FM, YouTube, all of those things. I also have articles coming out in Brain magazines that are very interesting. So check me out on Brains magazine. I have one article so far and an exclusive interview, and I do have a school community as well. So it's the Hill and Virgin tribe on the school community.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

Oh, I love it! Congratulations on your feature article.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Thank you. And one last thing. This is something that I'm sharing with you guys first because I haven't even shared it with my audience. But I will be on Tubi and Fire TV having episodes there as well. So look out for us on there as well. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you so much for allowing me to come on your platform.

Self‑Check Before No Contact

SPEAKER_01 35:59

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