How To Forgive Without Reconciliation 3 Steps To Heal

Are you waiting for an apology that may never come? Discover how to lower your emotional triggers and reclaim your peace without forcing reconciliation. We share a practical framework for forgiveness, and we show how to work through three targeted forgiveness lists: others, self, and money. Forgiveness mentor Katharine Giovanni, explains why you can forgive people, places, and systems, and how to start small and still change your life.

Chapters

• 1:53 Myths And Truths About Forgiveness
• 4:33 Triggers, Perspective, And Why It’s For You
• 6:19 Stress, Self‑Talk, And “Energy” Science
• 7:42 Signs You’re Carrying Unforgiveness
• 10:05 Forgiving People, Places, And Things
• 15:15 List One: Forgiving Others Step‑By‑Step
• 19:16 When Memories Surface And PTSD Support
• 20:51 List Two: Self‑Forgiveness Cues And Steps
• 23:05 List Three: Money, Set Points, And Energy
• 34:09 A Simple Nightly Start For Skeptics

• myths that forgiveness means reunion or admitting fault
• forgiveness as trigger removal and nervous system relief
• signs of stuck anger in health, work, and relationships
• forgiving energy around places, dates, and objects
• nightly gratitude and simple mantras to begin
• step‑by‑step list for forgiving others with ratings
• handling memory surges and pacing to avoid overload
• self‑forgiveness cues and reframing harsh self‑talk
• money set points, family narratives, and release work
• a kayak microstory on resilience and self‑trust
• a plan for forgiving harsh parents by degrees
• resources for Catherine’s course and contact info

Connect with Katharine Giovanni

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:00

One thing I'm going to teach you is everybody tells you you need to forgive. Nobody teaches you how.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Hi friends, welcome to the New Normal Big Life Podcast. We're bringing you natural and integrative health information and stories about nature that we hope will inspire you to get outside an adventure, along with a step-by-step plan to help you practice what you've learned, create your own new normal, and live the biggest life you can dream. I'm your host, Antonet Lee, the Wellness Warrior. Let's get into today's topic. Welcome back to New Normal Big Life, Catherine Giovanni. Why don't you start with who you are, what you do, and the one big idea you plan to share with us from your expertise today?

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Well, my name is Catherine Giovanni, and I am a forgiveness educator and a transformation mentor, author speaker, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the one thing I'm going to teach you is everybody tells you you need to forgive. Nobody teaches you how. And what if you don't want to? Then what do you do? I actually teach you how.

Myths And Truths About Forgiveness

SPEAKER_00 1:07

I love that so much. Today's episode is going to be dedicated to a loyal friend and listener, Ed. Ed's been listening for a while. And in our X Base community, we talked about the topic of forgiveness in your episode. And Ed had a question that we'll take later on. But Ed, thank you so much for being such a dedicated wellness warrior. And I hope this response helps you in your journey. So, for listeners who are not familiar with forgiveness and haven't listened to our episode, can you talk about what forgiveness is and in the context of personal growth and healing and why do we need to forgive or should we forgive?

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Well, let's first talk about the things that are just people are saying about forgiveness that are wrong. Flat out wrong. First of all, if I forgive you, it doesn't mean I want a relationship with you. I probably don't, to be fair. If I forgive you, it doesn't mean all of a sudden we're buddy buddies again, and I want to go out for coffee and I want to rekindle the relationship. You're still a dumpster fire, you're still awful, you still have to make amends, you still don't deserve my forgiveness. That's not going to change. Well, if I forgive Catherine, it means that I'm admitting they were right and I was wrong. No, that's that's also wrong. Forgiveness, you do it for you. You're not doing it for them. It's never for them. You're doing it for you. The formal definition of forgiveness for means simply, I want you out of my head. That's it. I want to stop thinking about you. I want to stop dreaming about you. And if I go to a bakery and I smell an apple pie, I want to stop getting triggered by smells and things I see around. And the method in the system that I've created is going to allow you to not only forgive, but to get rid of all those triggers so you can finally become the person you were always meant to be.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Well, you know, after our last episode, I did some forgiveness work with my parents. And I love my parents. I'm really grateful for the life they gave me. But, you know, they were children during the Great Depression, living on farms, and they had a harsh life, and it had big consequences for them. If they messed up, dangerous things could happen, right? And so they were hyper, I think, punitive with us, and you know, withholding love and attention, and also today we call it spankings. Back then they call it beatings.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

And it was I'm right, I'm in the same my parent, yeah, right there with you.

Triggers, Perspective, And Why It’s For You

SPEAKER_00 3:59

It created this fear and uh and on one hand, I loved my parents, but also I was afraid of them. Oh, we were all scared to death of them. Exactly. And so when I did the forgiveness work, what I immediately noticed is when I watched something that dealt with difficult family relationships, whether it's on television or in uh a video podcast that I was watching, I didn't cry anymore. I didn't, it didn't take me back to being like a five-year-old kid, afraid that your mother was going to lose control while she's spanking you and you wouldn't survive that.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

You know, it removed the emotional charge. Exactly. That's what it does, and it changes your perspective. I'm from New York City originally, lived there for 30 years, and there's this other saying that irritates me forgive and forget. We never forget anything if you're from New York. Ever. So we're not gonna forget what happened. Never, but it does change your perspective because now you can look at the love. Now you can look at a, you know, at a soap opera or a movie on TV, and the same scenario isn't gonna break you down in tears, which you just proved. Your perspective changed.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

And a lot of people think of forgiveness as they're letting the person they're forgiving off the hook, but it doesn't actually benefit the person doing the forgiving. I'm sorry, but it does benefit the person who's doing the forgiving, not the person being forgived. Can you tell us about that and how this forgiveness process is a powerful tool?

Stress, Self‑Talk, And “Energy” Science

SPEAKER_01 5:42

You're doing it for you. You're not doing it for them. And they're still wrong, as I said before, they're still a dumpster fire, they don't deserve your forgiveness. Let me be clear: they probably don't deserve your forgiveness. That's fair. You're not doing it for them. So everybody watching this on a scale of one to 10, with 10 being unforgivable and one being the easiest person in the world, 10 out of 10 of you are all thinking of your unforgivables. And that's fair. That's normal. But my system is gonna start you off on the other end. And we're gonna we're gonna get to the unforgivables later. So a little science for you. Why do you want to do this? What is forgiveness going to actually do for you? And I said this in the last episode, but I'll say it again just to be to be brief. There was a study done in Japan called the Japanese water study. And what he what he did is he took two containers of water. Stay with me. One container of water, all he did was talk to it. He said beautiful loving words to it. The other container of water, hate, nothing but hate. Then he froze the water, put it under a microscope. The water he spoke love to had these beautiful crystal formations. The water he spoke hate to had these malformations that were ugly and nasty. The human body is over 95% water. So when your self-talk is bad, when you are with anger, what do you think you're doing to the water cells within your own body? This is why people say anger and stress make you sick. That's the science behind it. You're literally making yourself sick. And if you're always looking, and I'm holding a purple cup in front of my face, if you're always looking at anger, I can't conduct my life, I can't even see you anymore. But if you by using my system, it's going to allow you to move your little cup of anger out and you'll be able to pay attention to life around you.

Signs You’re Carrying Unforgiveness

SPEAKER_00 7:38

How can someone recognize if they're carrying some unforgiveness? How does it show up in their lives and what are some of the symptoms?

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Well, you're probably sick and tired of being sick and tired. You get every Tom, Dick, and Harry flu bug that comes down. If there's a germ, you'll get it. You're constantly, you're constantly looking at life on other people. Well, the grass is greener over there. You're saying, you know, and your self-talk is probably bad. And you're always thinking in the past, you know, you're always thinking about what happened, and you're telling the story. I told my story for years. I'm a child suicide survivor, and I've been through, you know, I've been sober for how many years, Internet? 35, I guess. Lost count. And I'm a cancer survivor. And my parents were both alcoholics. So connect all those dots. And it was kind of a volatile childhood, right? And for years, I carried my story around like a badge of honor. I mean, I would tell stories about it, I would joke about it, and I would tell the funny stories, you know, dysfunctional funny stories, and I'd get people to laugh. But I was still telling the stories. I was still living as the child who was abused and all of these kinds of things. And I wasn't able to live my authentic self because I was always looking at the past. I was sick all the time. I got stomach aches all the time, headaches all the time. I started to drink at one point. These are all signs. Now, why you're in the same job and you can't seem to get another job, or you keep dating the same guy over and over again. Why you keep dating that same kind of guy? You keep getting the same kind of boss at work. What's up with that? Yeah, it's a forgiveness thing, and I can help.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

A lot of people don't realize that some of the constant recurring themes in their lives have a thread. And that thread is likely some unresolved forgiveness issues. So beyond obvious grudges, what subtle ways might someone might unforgiveness show up in your life or someone?

Forgiving People, Places, And Things

SPEAKER_01 9:50

You can forgive people, places, and things. Please don't click off. Stay with me. Science has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is energy around everything. And I'll answer your question in a second. That's this is all prep work. There's including this little silver microphone that I'm talking into right now, there's an energy field around it. So I give people all the time that says, Catherine, I did forgive them, but they keep coming back into my life. That's because you didn't forgive the energy. That's the secret sauce. So you can be driving down the road and you'll see your grammar school out of the corner of your eye. Well, it's going to immediately put you into a bad mood, but you won't know why. I know why, because you were bullied in that school and it triggered you. But you don't remember because it was grammar school. You'll go into the cafeteria and you'll see a turkey sandwich with cranberry sauce, and then all of a sudden you'll be biting people's heads off. Why? Because maybe you have a memory somewhere where there was a turkey sandwich and somebody threw it at you, or was some horrible Thanksgiving, and it's triggering a memory. So, how do you remove the triggers? You can forgive people, places, and things. You forgive the building, you forgive the energy around the building, you forgive the table, the chairs, the desk. I'm actually not kidding. The energy around all these things. You pick apart the memories. So you can get rid of those triggers. Making sense, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:14

You are making perfect sense. And I actually practiced that since our last conversation. And what I learned is that I really needed to give to forgive the VA system for the horrible care that I initially got. It took five years to get help. And what I noticed was every time I walked into a VA system building, whether it's a doctor's office or hospital, getting x-rays, whatever it was, I would feel extremely anxious. I'd feel nauseous. I felt sicker on the way in than I did one before I left my home.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

We're at the VA a lot, so I I can relate to this.

Preparing For The Work And Gratitude

SPEAKER_00 12:00

So I I needed to forgive the system, the veterans administration system. And now when I go in to get my vitals checked, for example, my blood pressure is not spiking off the charts. I don't have a headache, my pain didn't suddenly escalate to level 25 on a scale of one to 10. So for listeners, this really does work.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

It's an amazing thing that you can go into the VA and you're not triggered by anything, and all you did was forgive the energy. So, what is the science behind what I'm talking about? And we're we're both talking about forgiving buildings and chairs and VA system. You can forgive anything. You can forgive the date and the calendar, you can forgive a city, you can forgive a building, a table, a chair, a bed, the park. You forgive anything. You can forgive anything that comes on CNN, anything, anybody. Now, what's it gonna do for the person you're forgiving? Absolutely nothing, but it's gonna do great things for you. And the energy behind it is when you get angry, and I'm the only one in the world that ever wondered about it, when anger leaves your mouth, you assume it goes into the universe and it dissipates into thin air, like a radio wave. It does not. It hangs around your energy field and it stays there until you clear it. So by the time you know you're you're you're older, you're pretty, if you don't start to forgive, you're literally walking around in a little black cloud. And it's gonna start affecting the water cells in your body, and you're starting to feel sick. So when you forgive, it's gonna actually clear out all the dark energy from your field, and you're gonna be able to see life again. You're gonna be able to taste coffee, you're gonna be able to go into the VA and it's not gonna bother you. Now, will somebody bother you in the VA? Yeah, it's the VA. Some somebody's gonna do something stupid. It is what it is, but you're not gonna go up to a number 10 anger anymore. You might go to a three, you're gonna notice you're angry, and you're gonna say, ah, and you're gonna easily toss it. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Forgiveness work can feel, I don't know, emotionally intense, but also deeply transformative, and it's so useful. How should someone prepare mentally, emotionally, and practically before diving in?

The Forgiveness Path Course Overview

List One: Forgiving Others Step‑By‑Step

SPEAKER_01 14:25

That's a good question. I actually just dove in when I created this system. There was no prep work. I think to mentally prepare yourself, I I'm not telling you to go to your number unforgivable 10, your parents, whoever, it's usually family. That's number 10, your business partners, relationships, girlfriends, boyfriends, whatever, and and mother, father, sister, brother, that kind of thing. It's just in my experience, family will really mess you up. And I'm asking you to do the easy ones first. The person who cut you off in traffic yesterday. I want you to start with the person who stole your sandwich out of the company refrigerator and keeps doing it. Don't replace the sandwich with hot sauce so you hurt them. You just forgive them. So I want you to start with the easy ones. Mentally preparing yourself is I'm not asking you to go right to the dark side. I'm asking you to just be alone and be willing to forgive. And eventually we're gonna get to those people you always vowed you would never forgive. One of them might be yourself. We'll talk about that too. And I can go through the system real fast if you want me to.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

We'll get to that in a moment. I wanted to ask you what are some beginner-friendly tools or practices you can recommend to make this rewarding but difficult practice your own.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Before you do the system, if you want to start warming up and what I humans are humans, they're gonna they're excuse my language, but they're gonna piss you off. Because that's what humans irritate other humans, right? So when I get irritated, I've been known to go out in my car and say, I forgive them, I forgive them, I forgive them, I forgive them, I forgive them. Do I mean any of them? Probably not in the moment, not even one. But it puts me into that forgiveness, gratitude type of thing. And then once I get it out, I think of the three things I'm most grateful for. Even if it's only because I have a hot cup of coffee next to me, I immediately think about the things I was grateful for. And then I put this person on my forgiveness list that I do, that you're gonna do every night before bed. So that's a if you if you haven't started the forgiveness practice, start waking up and thinking about the three things that you're most grateful for. Even if it's there's water running through the pipes in my house. It might be just that. Some days are like that. But write down either before bed or first thing in the morning the three things you're most grateful for. And then just get into this. I'm forgiving for me. You're not forgiving for them. You're forgiving for you because you're the prisoner. Buddha had this wonderful quote that says, Anger is like a poison that you drink and hope the other person dies. That's you know, I'm gonna drink the poison and I'm hoping you're gonna kick. Well, they're not gonna kick. And the thing about it is the other person you're mad at is probably not thinking about you at all. You're sitting there eating a pint of Jaben and Jerry's ice cream, you're crying, and you're sitting in the fetal position in your cat in your on your couch, and they're out having fun, living their life. They don't care. You forgive for you, you're not doing it for them.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

You know, not everybody's a self-starter. Everyone won't be able to listen to this podcast or the previous episode and go through the steps and know exactly what to do and how to do it, but you've made it easy with an online class. Tell us about the forgiveness path class.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

The forgiveness path is an online class because I understand not everybody likes to read, and I do have an audio book, but not everybody likes an audiobook either. So it's 10 lessons, and they all come to your email box, and there's 10 in a row. You'll get a video from me that's anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes long, teaching whatever teaching 10 10 different lessons, and you're gonna get a some some copy from me, and you're gonna get the appropriate chapter of the book. And if you don't want to read the appropriate audio chapter of the book, and you do that for 10 days. Now, you don't have to do it 10 days in a row if you're busy. You can squirrel those emails away and do them at your own pace if you want to. I have a friend who took the class and he couldn't, he just couldn't do the unforgivable lesson. It took him two weeks to open that email. But he finally did open the email and he got himself, got his way through it. But it's me exactly like you see me now with the exact same background, teaching you step by step exactly how to do it.

When Memories Surface And PTSD Support

SPEAKER_00 19:07

I love this. Let's talk about the first key list in your online class, the forgiveness list for others. What is that?

List Two: Self‑Forgiveness Cues And Steps

List Three: Money, Set Points, And Energy

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Yeah, in the class, you're gonna make three lists. Now, when you do this practice, I want you to find a quiet place in your house or outside. I really don't care. I really don't want any other humans around you. You can have the animals if they're gonna be good, but I want you to have uninterrupted time. I also would prefer it if your cell phone was off. I know you're twitching, and I apologize, but if you're twitching at the phone of turning turning your phone off, turn the volume off just for a moment. Just remember to turn it back on again so you don't miss things. Then I want you to sit down with a pad of paper and a pen, and I want you to write down or your laptop, I don't care. I want you to write down all the people you think you have to forgive. All of them. Now, the first three to five names are gonna be the number tens, the unforgivables on the scale of one to ten, with ten being unforgivable, those tens, those are gonna be first. And then you're gonna do the ones that are kind of still irking you. But keep going, go all the way back to the sandbox in grammar school. Don't judge the list. If you write down a little red wagon and it just comes right out of your onto the paper, keep it there. Keep it there. Your your your brain is coming up with things that you might not remember. So, and I want you to keep going until you think you finish. My first list had 50 people on it, overachiever here. Then I want you to rate all these people from one to ten, ten being horrific. Now you could have 20 number sevenths. I don't care. You could skip a number, I don't care, as long as you as long as you, you know, group them as good, better, best type of thing, right? Small, medium, large. Then I want you to, and I want you to do this before bed. And there's a reason why, but your body heals itself when it you're sleeping. And I don't need you to get energy sickness because this remember those water cells, the water cells have to go somewhere. And when I first did this practice, I I cleared, I tried to do all 50 in a row, all in one sitting. And I thought, I'm gonna be like a phoenix rising from the ashes. I'm gonna wake up tomorrow morning and I'm gonna be a brand new person. Yeah, didn't work out that way. Spent the next three days in bed with what everybody thought was a stomach flu. It was not the stomach flu, it was something we call energy sickness. And so your body heals itself when you're sleeping. So I don't really want you to do more than 10 a night. And if you're doing a very high number, one a night. And what I want you to do is I want you to take the first one. Let's say it, I'll take my own. It was a friend of mine from high school, and that That was decades ago, and I couldn't even remember what we were mad at. So I looked at the name and I imagined in my mind's eye that she was standing in front of me. Not the adult, the kid from high school. That's who was standing in front of me. The original kid. And this is your time to get closure. Maybe the person has passed away and you never got closure. Now's your time because you're alone in a room. This is your party. You could scream, cry, dance. I don't care what you do. Say whatever it is you want to say, things you've always wanted to say. Get it all out. Then when you're done, put your hand in your heart just to remind you to say the words from your heart and say, I completely forgive Antoinette. I forgive the energy around Antoinette. I completely forgive myself. I forgive the energy around myself. I completely forgive the energy around the entire relationship. And so it is. Amen. However, you want to end it. Now check in with your body. Was it a number one and now it's gone? Feel better? Okay, cross the person off the list, the list, go to the next person. Was it a number four? And you're still mad. Okay, cross the number off. Is it a number three now or is it still a four? Doesn't matter if it's a three, okay. Write three, wait 24 hours, do it again. And this happened to a friend of mine. I told you this one already. But she was sitting right in front of me. We were we were right together. She's a really close friend of mine. And she she said, There's a level five. And she said, This is gonna be easy. I'll be able to toss this something from her childhood. And she made that first pass, only said that one prayer, and you could see the anger bubble up under her skin. And I looked at her and I said, What's wrong? She said it's a 10. I'm furious, she said. That's because there your brain protects you, and there's a closet in the back of your brain. And she said the magic words, and all of a sudden, memories came pouring out. So she changed it from a five to a 10, put it at the end of the list, and we kept going. This is a really, really powerful, powerful exercise. Very good for people with PTSD as well, because you're you're gonna you're gonna be able to pick apart some of those memories. And I'm the only one on the planet that's ever gonna look at you and say this. Possibly. You don't have to forgive the unforgivable. You don't. So how do you manage that? Well, there's other, there's a lot of people, places, and things that you can forgive before you even get to that dumpster fight.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

So, what are clear signs that you need to add a person, a place, or thing to your forgiveness list for others?

SPEAKER_01 24:48

If there's an emotional charge there, you need to add it. And once you do the first list and you get people off of your list, your brain is sadly gonna come up with more experiences. Your brain is never at a loss for things like that. And as these things come to you, write it down. Write it down in the notes, send yourself an email, write it down, whatever you think has a forgiveness charge. I want you to trust your intuition, that little bird on your shoulder, your gut feeling. And when you're writing your list, write it from your gut. Right and whatever don't, and I can't mean I can't say this enough. Don't judge the list. If you write down something weird or a name you don't recognize, like Bob, okay, obviously Bob would be a number one because you don't remember the guy. Put it on your list anywhere because some part of you, you you probably did have an interaction with him and he bumped it cheap with the VA or something. Write it down.

Microstory: Kayak, Rock, And Resilience

SPEAKER_00 25:43

So the next one I've heard you say that it's the heaviest layer, and that's the self-forgiveness list. Yeah, I mean boy. I had such a great conversation with a federal f a fellow healthcare provider. Uh, we were both medics in the military, different branches, and we both realized that we had some self-forgiveness work to do for the people that we couldn't help as much as we would like to, or not at all. So talk to us about the self-forgiveness list.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

This is list number two. I would encourage you to make at least one pass at list number one before you go on to list number two. You don't have to get all the people off your list because this is not an overnight fix. You can't get an unforgivable down and forgive them overnight or in a week. It's gonna take a minute, right? But you can knock out the low the low numbers. List number two is all the people that need to forgive you. And I want they could be events, they could be places, they could be memories, they could be people, they could be things you said to somebody that you, you know, once the words are out, you can't grab them back as much as we'd want to. So you write a list of all the people, places, and things that you think need to forgive you, and then you rate them from one to ten, ten being the worst of the worst, and one being easy. And you slowly go through the list, you just flip the words of the mantra a little bit. I have a different mantra in my class to say, but what it's really is Antoinette completely forgives me. You know, you just you flip the language.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

I like that, and it's very, very simple. So I had this unconscious awareness that I needed to forgive myself. But what are some signs that people might be ignoring when they urgently need to do this self-forgiveness work?

Ed’s Question: Forgiving Harsh Parents

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Their self-talk is probably bad. They're probably using a lot of negative spino, well, you know, I'm nobody, I'm just a loser, you know, I'd be better off dead. You know, it's these kinds of, and you know what I'm talking about. We all know these kinds of people. And if you're if you if everybody is looking at you saying your self-talk is horrible, it could be you have to forgive other people, but there's also a really, really legitimate chance that there's something in your past that you are beating yourself up for, and that's why you want to leave the planet. Write the list of who you think needs to forgive you, and as you move up the list, that closet in the back of your head is eventually going to open. That's why I tell people don't judge the list, and eventually new memories are going to come into being. Don't start drinking again or anything like that. Just write down the memories as peacefully as you can. Some will make you angry. Let the anger, I am not one to tell people to stifle their anger. Scream into a pillow if you have to.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Another forgiveness list that I was so excited to see on your list was the money forgiveness list. Because I can spot in people when they have some forgiveness work that they need to do around money. But they sometimes they are people who will say, every time I make a big purchase, I get physically sick, or people who shop and shop and shop retail therapy, you know, those people. Talk to us about this list.

Picking Apart Memories And The Unforgivable

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Money is a funny thing and it does really weird things to people. And everybody says money corrupts, and it actually doesn't, it just brings out the person you always want. If you're used to chaos and you are used to living in survival mode, your body thinks that's your normal, your new normal, shall we say? And it's used to chaos, it's used to survival. So the minute you try and move out of that particular normal and you try to get more money, and you get, you know, if your body is gonna look at you and go, hmm, no, that doesn't feel good. So it's gonna bring you back to your set point. So, how do you get your body to shut up and allow you to win the lottery and get a better life for yourself? Well, you forgive it. Money is simply energy, that's all it is. It's energy, and you can forgive energy. So you write down a list of all the money things. The apartment in New York that you had to live in right out of college because you couldn't afford anything better. It was in a bad neighborhood and it was over a fish market. You forgive your parents for their attitudes towards money. Maybe there was never enough money, maybe you know, you never had enough food, you were raised in a bad neighborhood. Write all these things down. You can forgive the reason you had to go get that job that was you were overqualified for. Write all these things down, rate them from one to ten, and there is a big one, you probably turned down a job or turned something happened. Maybe you had to rely on a boyfriend or a girlfriend because you didn't have any money, whatever it was, write them down, rate them from one to ten again, go through the list and just keep going. Everything is forgivable. So when you're doing your money list, you write down people, places, events, things, buildings, let your gut be your guide. Sit very quietly, and I'm not going to tell you to meditate because not everybody can. So, but what I really want everybody to do before any of these three lists is I want you, before you write your list, I just want you to sit in a quiet room and just with nothing, no music, just sit there quietly and just be. And if your mind goes to the grocery list and the 10,000 things you need to do, that's fine. Just squash it immediately. And just sit and be for a minute. Then I want you to ask the universe to provide you with the information you need to do the exercise and then write the list. I usually ask the angels to help me because I am who I am. But if you don't believe in angels, then ask your higher power. And if you don't believe in a higher power, then just ask your gut.

A Simple Nightly Start For Skeptics

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Before we cover the next topic in this episode, I want to introduce you to the adventure sports lifestyle with what I call a microstory about an adventure that I've had. The adventure sports lifestyle and my deep connection to nature is essential to my good health. So here's the story. We're gonna talk about paddling to a distant launch. I got in my kayak and headed out with Matthew from a launch on a section of river where I've never been, and I had no idea what to expect when I go around the bend. I was leading the way, reading and running the river on my own with Matthew behind me, and I came around the bend and got lodged on a rock that I didn't see. I knew in that moment it was going to take some effort to get off this rock, but before asking for help, and this wasn't stoicism, this was just me being self-reliant and resilient in the moment. I knew it would take a lot of effort to get off the rock, and I still had a full day, probably three to four hours of paddling ahead of me, but I was committed to doing this myself if I can. I inched forward, inched forward, shifting myself by scooting myself off the rock. At first, it felt like I wasn't moving at all, and then suddenly I was heading downriver, being taken with the current. I did that. In that moment, I realized that this was a teachable opportunity for myself to think back on this day and remember how when I chose resilience, when I chose self-reliance, I was able to do a difficult thing on my own. And it took effort, but also a belief that it was possible that I could do this. And even if I needed to bail and use my whistle to call Matt over for help because he was far away from me, I knew that Lifeline was there. So I knew I had community that could reach in and help me. But I felt really good that in a scary time, in a time that took effort and resilience, I was able to power through on my own. I hope this inspires you to get outside and adventure for the health and social benefits of it all. Now, back to today's topic with Catherine Giovanni. So let's go back to Ed's question. I'm gonna paraphrase it for him. So Ed's question is what steps can he take to forgive parents that, although they raised him well, their methods were very brutal and harsh and even violent in their disciplinary style. How can I forgive those parents? Is Ed's question.

Where To Find Catherine And Resources

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SPEAKER_01 35:20

The same way I forgave my father for very similar reasons. It's gonna take you a while. It may take you months to get that. It took me months to get my father down to a forgivable level. When I first started, my dad was an unforgivable, and he's been dead for years. You can forgive dead people because where they are or not doesn't matter a lick because he was alive and well in my head. And I wanted to say things that I couldn't say anymore. So this method allowed me to get closure and it allowed me to move beyond it because he was dead. So you can forgive the dead people. And when I first started, I didn't want to forgive dad, had no interest in it. In fact, I didn't even want to forgive the energy around my father. That's how sensitive it was. So I took a memory and I picked it apart. I took one Christmas that was particularly awful, and I picked apart the memory. I forgave the house that we were living in in the time and the energy around the house. And now remember, I haven't forgiven dad yet, and I haven't forgiven the energy. I'm picking apart the memory. Now check in with your body. Is it still a 10? It probably will be. Okay, wait 24 hours, pick another memory, do it again. It took me about five to ten memories before I was finally willing to make my first pass at my father. Remember, this is over a course of you know nights in a row because I don't want you to do, I don't want you to get energy sickness. So it's like one night, one night, one night. And I finally decided, okay, I think I'm ready to forgive the energy around my father, not my dad. I forgave just the energy. I didn't forgive dad, I just forgave the energy around his body. And then that 10 kind of went to a nine-five. And I thought, okay, the needle moved just a little bit, and I continued doing it. And eventually, when I eventually I was able to actually make my first pass at him. No, he didn't deserve it. No, he wasn't a great man in life. I did it for me. I did it so I would be free. And then I got all the way down to a one and I forgave him. So I realized that there were probably things I said to him that were probably horrific. And that's how I came up with that second list. So I made a list of all the things I could remember about me saying, you know, when you're in the heat of anger and you're a teenager, you say things that probably are really hurtful. So I wrote them all down that all the ones I could remember. And I started going up the other way. So I forgave dad from a 10 to a one, and then I went on one and I went the other way so he would forgive me. And I know this sounds very strange because he's dead, but now our today our relationship is actually pretty good. I can look at pictures and I have absolutely zero emotional residue from it. So and let's let me be perfectly clear. If it's something like a rape, for example, it's gonna be very hard for you to forgive the rapist if you ever can. I was attacked in in in college. Have I ever forgiven the person who attacked me? Eventually I did, but it took years. And I've been doing this forgiveness stuff a long time, but I forgave every part of the memory and it took the pressure off. And eventually, after some, after a while, I was able to actually do, you know, forgive the attacker too. And if I had never been able to forgive the attacker, that would have been fine. You don't have to forgive the unforgivable. There are things in this world that are completely unforgivable, but you're not one of them. You can forgive yourself.

Sponsor: Ready Hour Adventure Nutrition

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Thank you for your vulnerability, Catherine. I'm so sorry that you went through that. And I'm glad you found some tools that help. This has been such an insightful conversation. I uh hope the listeners will jump in and do this work. Even if you don't think that you have anything that you need to forgive or anyone that needs to forgive you, I would say go through it. Go through the exercise because I am a hundred percent sure you will find some forgiveness work that can help your life. What more would you like to leave listeners with?

SPEAKER_01 39:50

If you are one of the people listening to this and saying, I'm good. I have nobody to forgive. I'm good. I want you to do me a favor for the next three to four nights before you go to bed. I want you to say the following words. I completely forgive myself for the fact that I have nobody to forgive and the energy around that thought. And by the third or fourth night, maybe sooner, your brain is gonna open up a closet and you're gonna start to remember little things. It could be from childhood, it could be the bully, 10th grade, it could be anything. Start writing a list. You can keep a pad of paper or your phone by your bed and start writing down the names, and then you can begin your forgiveness journey.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Wellness Warriors, you'll find links to Catherine's course and all of her socials and other ways to connect with her in the show description. But Catherine, would you just tell us how we can reach you?

SPEAKER_01 40:47

You um you can reach me via my website at Kathrynchiovanni.com.

Health Disclaimer And Closing

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Thank you so much for this conversation. Quick heads up, Wellness Warriors. I don't let just anyone into this mic time. The only sponsors I ever bring on are products that I plan to use, personally use, swear by, and that have legitimately moved the needle on my health and my families. No fluff, no fillers, no junk. So if you're serious about leveling up, your energy, sleep, recovery skin, whatever your goal is, do not bounce early. Stay to the very end of this episode. I'm dropping some of my absolute ride or die brands and exactly how they've helped me feel unstoppable. These aren't random ads, they're tools I stake my name on. You'll thank me later. Keep it locked. We're going all the way to the finish line together. Magnesium, an unsung hero, fuels over 300 bodily reactions from heart health to stress relief. Magnesium expert Natalie Girado, founder of Rooted In, found freedom from anxiety, insomnia, and pain through topical magnesium. It transformed my life, she said, inspiring her mission to share this mineral's power. Cardiologist Dr. Jack Wolfson calls magnesium essential for heart health, helping regulate rhythm, blood sugar, and reduce inflammation. Up to 80% of people may be deficient facing issues like depression, migraines, insomnia, or muscle crail. For women over 40, magnesium eases menopause symptoms, boosts energy, and supports bones. Choosing the correct type of magnesium matters. Real stories, Natalie's in mind, highlight its impact. After interviewing magnesium expert Natalie Girato, I became a customer. I was already a magnesium fan, having been told by two cardiologists to take magnesium for a minor heart arrhythmia. Natalie explains it best in the Magnesium The Mineral Transforming Lives episode of New Normal Big Life Podcast. Fast forward after the interview, I bought the Rooted Inn bundle for sleep, tranquility, and pain relief. As a spine injury survivor with several other health challenges, I'm in constant pain. However, I don't take any pain medication. Rooted in is now one more source that nature provided to give our bodies what it needs when it needs it. You can find magnesium in natural bodies of water like lakes and rivers and in soil. But modern farming practices have stripped magnesium out of the soil and our food. That's why today, Rooted Inn's rest, relief, and tranquility are part of our afternoon and nightly sleep routine. My guy who did two tours kicking indoors in a rock with the Marines now has no trouble falling asleep. I no longer have to take melatonin before bedtime to fall asleep. So after I became a customer and saw how well these products work, I applied to become an affiliate. Do something naturally good for yourself. Get RootedIn. Click my affiliate link in the episode description to shop now. When you're Planning and adventure camping, rafting, RV, or mountaineering, you'll need quality food with sufficient vitamins, minerals, and nutrients to fuel your adventure. My partner Ready Hour is here to help you ahead of time. Ready Hour has a long history of providing calorie-rich, reliable, and delicious nourishment for life's unexpected situations and adventures. They're part of a family of companies that have served millions of people like you for decades. My family and I use Ready Hour products for camping, mountaineering, and disaster preparedness for five years now. They're not just reliable, they're also your affordable option too. Long-term storable food shouldn't break the bank. That's why they have great sales and payment options for you. It's your bridge to safety and survival when you're on an adventure. So make your next decision your smartest decision. Be ready for adventure tomorrow today. Trust Ready Hour. Ready to shop? Use my affiliate link in the show description. The information in this podcast is not medical advice and should not be treated as such. Always consult your physician or healthcare professional before pursuing any health related procedure or activity.